Paranoias musicales: Golpear una tecla negra con el puño

[Xinver]

Para mí la mejor sinfonía de Beethoven es la 7ª.

[draku]

¿ves?, pues ya me tengo que oír todas sus sinfonías de la 7º (que hablaré mañana en mi hilo dedicado) sólo conozco su movimiento más famoso, y ya siento la mirada intimidatoria de tito Beet

También miré una lista de las 20 mejores sinfonías votadas por 151 directores de orquesta en la BBC Music Magazine, y vi que no había oído todavía algunas, quise morir...

Oculto:

ºNo. 20. Bruckner: Symphony No. 7
Written in 1883, just after the death of Richard Wagner, this symphony, as a homage to that great composer of operas, has parts for four Wagner tubas. And oh… what a glorious sound they make.

No. 19. Beethoven; Symphony No. 6, Pastoral
This is the first symphony to make its inspiration obvious and, less obviously, the first symphony to ask of its listeners not “what do you think of this”, but “how does this make you feel?”

No. 18. Brahms: Symphony No. 2
At a time of Romantic excess this symphony, written by a composer on vacation in the Alps, manages to balance the highs and lows perfectly so that it has claims to being the best constructed symphony written in the second half of the 19th century. Still, it’s so pleasant you hardly notice the craft behind its constant flow of melody.

No. 17. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5
The ambiguities of the 20th century mark this symphony as a great conundrum. Is it an ironic send up of triumphalist rhetoric or is it a sensational paean of hope? Answer: it could be both.

No. 16. Beethoven: Symphony No. 7
This symphony, called by Wagner “the apotheosis of the dance,” constitutes a vast feedback loop between the physical sensations the music evokes in the listener’s body and the emotions that course as a consequence through the mind.

No. 15. Mozart: Symphony No. 40
Edgy and at least once positively atonal, this minor key symphony reveals its composer as at once the most human and the greatest dramaturge of the classical period.

No. 14. Sibelius: Symphony No. 7
The composer of this brief symphony wrote it with a bottle of whiskey always within reach. He knew, if the world did not, that it would be his last symphony. No composer has ever left a better testament.

No. 13. Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
A vast work with Sierra-like gleaming snow-capped peaks and soft, forested valleys, this symphony pays homage to both Bach and Beethoven over the course of its high peak hike.

No. 12. Brahms: Symphony No. 3
No question about it, this symphony contains all kinds of personal messages. Over its four movements it tells the tale of an unconsummated love affair that begins with a musical clue to its content: just 4 notes: F, A, A-flat, F. Those notes stand for “Frei aber Froh,” German for “Free but Happy”.

No. 11. Beethoven Symphony No. 5
Perhaps the most famous, if not the greatest, symphony of all time. It is the first symphony that takes aim with its first notes at its very last notes, pushing the listener ever forward, sometimes relentlessly and sometimes gently on to the mighty C major ending.

No. 10. Mahler: Symphony No. 3
A gigantic symphony that began with a simple question that led to a very long answer. “What do the rocks tell me?” That’s the same question that geographer, explorer Alexander Humboldt asked a few generations before the composer got around to it. Both geographer and composer came up with profound if very different answers.

No. 9. Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Pathetique
This is a symphony that has always been associated with tragedy because the composer’s death soon followed the premier. Some have even interpreted this symphony as the world’s longest suicide note.

No. 8. Brahms: Symphony No. 1
“You don’t know what it’s like for the likes of us when we hear footsteps behind us.” Those were the words of the composer of this symphony when he was asked why it took him so long to write it. And exactly whose footsteps was he hearing?

No. 7. Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
This is the symphony that forever linked the autobiography of the composer to the music he might write. Like his life, his symphony is a mixture of reverie and wildness.

No. 6. Brahms: Symphony No. 4
This symphony is a last symphony that is a true summing up musically. It is a work by a man obsessed with music’s past and its great creators… Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Yet it maps out a future for the symphony as well.

No. 5. Mahler: Symphony No. 2, Resurrection
Hearing this long symphony, the critics called it a “monster” and its composer “impious”. But audiences were transported by it; they hardly noticed its touches of Nietzsche and Freud.

No. 4. Mahler: Symphony No. 9
This is another “last” symphony even though the composer didn’t know it. It is also the largest “last” symphony of them all with a percussion section that includes timpani, bass drum, triangle, cymbals, tam-tam, glockenspiel and three deep bells.

No. 3. Mozart: Symphony No. 41, Jupiter
Yet another “last” symphony in which the composer seems to revel in creating conflicts that only he can unravel. It’s a symphony written deeper than most, a demonstration that harmony not melody is at the heart of what stirs us in music.

No. 2. Beethoven: Symphony No. 9, Choral
What do you do when music alone won’t do what you want it to? You write this symphony, but only one deaf composer could do it.

No. 1. Beethoven: Symphony No. 3, Eroica
This symphony changed everything about music. Before it, music served as hand maiden to other purposes and activities. Symphonies were stimulating diversions, pleasing and, often, moving entertainments. This symphony, however had the power to change the people who heard it, to grab them, lift them, completely engage them and finally without reference to class or religion inspire them.

Que por cierto, en 1º lugar salió la 3º de Beethoven, por encima de la 9...

[Xinver]

También miré una lista de las 20 mejores sinfonías votadas por 151 directores de orquesta en la BBC Music Magazine, y vi que no había oído todavía algunas, quise morir...

Oculto:

ºNo. 20. Bruckner: Symphony No. 7
Written in 1883, just after the death of Richard Wagner, this symphony, as a homage to that great composer of operas, has parts for four Wagner tubas. And oh… what a glorious sound they make.

No. 19. Beethoven; Symphony No. 6, Pastoral
This is the first symphony to make its inspiration obvious and, less obviously, the first symphony to ask of its listeners not “what do you think of this”, but “how does this make you feel?”

No. 18. Brahms: Symphony No. 2
At a time of Romantic excess this symphony, written by a composer on vacation in the Alps, manages to balance the highs and lows perfectly so that it has claims to being the best constructed symphony written in the second half of the 19th century. Still, it’s so pleasant you hardly notice the craft behind its constant flow of melody.

No. 17. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5
The ambiguities of the 20th century mark this symphony as a great conundrum. Is it an ironic send up of triumphalist rhetoric or is it a sensational paean of hope? Answer: it could be both.

No. 16. Beethoven: Symphony No. 7
This symphony, called by Wagner “the apotheosis of the dance,” constitutes a vast feedback loop between the physical sensations the music evokes in the listener’s body and the emotions that course as a consequence through the mind.

No. 15. Mozart: Symphony No. 40
Edgy and at least once positively atonal, this minor key symphony reveals its composer as at once the most human and the greatest dramaturge of the classical period.

No. 14. Sibelius: Symphony No. 7
The composer of this brief symphony wrote it with a bottle of whiskey always within reach. He knew, if the world did not, that it would be his last symphony. No composer has ever left a better testament.

No. 13. Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
A vast work with Sierra-like gleaming snow-capped peaks and soft, forested valleys, this symphony pays homage to both Bach and Beethoven over the course of its high peak hike.

No. 12. Brahms: Symphony No. 3
No question about it, this symphony contains all kinds of personal messages. Over its four movements it tells the tale of an unconsummated love affair that begins with a musical clue to its content: just 4 notes: F, A, A-flat, F. Those notes stand for “Frei aber Froh,” German for “Free but Happy”.

No. 11. Beethoven Symphony No. 5
Perhaps the most famous, if not the greatest, symphony of all time. It is the first symphony that takes aim with its first notes at its very last notes, pushing the listener ever forward, sometimes relentlessly and sometimes gently on to the mighty C major ending.

No. 10. Mahler: Symphony No. 3
A gigantic symphony that began with a simple question that led to a very long answer. “What do the rocks tell me?” That’s the same question that geographer, explorer Alexander Humboldt asked a few generations before the composer got around to it. Both geographer and composer came up with profound if very different answers.

No. 9. Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Pathetique
This is a symphony that has always been associated with tragedy because the composer’s death soon followed the premier. Some have even interpreted this symphony as the world’s longest suicide note.

No. 8. Brahms: Symphony No. 1
“You don’t know what it’s like for the likes of us when we hear footsteps behind us.” Those were the words of the composer of this symphony when he was asked why it took him so long to write it. And exactly whose footsteps was he hearing?

No. 7. Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
This is the symphony that forever linked the autobiography of the composer to the music he might write. Like his life, his symphony is a mixture of reverie and wildness.

No. 6. Brahms: Symphony No. 4
This symphony is a last symphony that is a true summing up musically. It is a work by a man obsessed with music’s past and its great creators… Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Yet it maps out a future for the symphony as well.

No. 5. Mahler: Symphony No. 2, Resurrection
Hearing this long symphony, the critics called it a “monster” and its composer “impious”. But audiences were transported by it; they hardly noticed its touches of Nietzsche and Freud.

No. 4. Mahler: Symphony No. 9
This is another “last” symphony even though the composer didn’t know it. It is also the largest “last” symphony of them all with a percussion section that includes timpani, bass drum, triangle, cymbals, tam-tam, glockenspiel and three deep bells.

No. 3. Mozart: Symphony No. 41, Jupiter
Yet another “last” symphony in which the composer seems to revel in creating conflicts that only he can unravel. It’s a symphony written deeper than most, a demonstration that harmony not melody is at the heart of what stirs us in music.

No. 2. Beethoven: Symphony No. 9, Choral
What do you do when music alone won’t do what you want it to? You write this symphony, but only one deaf composer could do it.

No. 1. Beethoven: Symphony No. 3, Eroica
This symphony changed everything about music. Before it, music served as hand maiden to other purposes and activities. Symphonies were stimulating diversions, pleasing and, often, moving entertainments. This symphony, however had the power to change the people who heard it, to grab them, lift them, completely engage them and finally without reference to class or religion inspire them.

Que por cierto, en 1º lugar salió la 3º de Beethoven, por encima de la 9...

Esa lista está totalmente sesgada. A ver, entendámonos, es una lista votada por directores de orquestas que se dedican a estos repertorios.
No me extraña que la 9ª no salga la primera dado que exige un gran coro y no se programa tan frecuentemente.
Para mi esto ya se ha convertido como en un bucle de pesadilla. Siempre las mismas obras de los mismos compositores.
Yo ya he eliminado de mi discografía, y en ello estoy, parte del clasicismo incluyendo Haydn, Mozart y Beethoven.
Los he escuchado hasta la saciedad y ya no me interesa tanto como descubrir otras cosas.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/ ... st-century

[august]

También miré una lista de las 20 mejores sinfonías votadas por 151 directores de orquesta en la BBC Music Magazine, y vi que no había oído todavía algunas, quise morir...

Oculto:

ºNo. 20. Bruckner: Symphony No. 7
Written in 1883, just after the death of Richard Wagner, this symphony, as a homage to that great composer of operas, has parts for four Wagner tubas. And oh… what a glorious sound they make.

No. 19. Beethoven; Symphony No. 6, Pastoral
This is the first symphony to make its inspiration obvious and, less obviously, the first symphony to ask of its listeners not “what do you think of this”, but “how does this make you feel?”

No. 18. Brahms: Symphony No. 2
At a time of Romantic excess this symphony, written by a composer on vacation in the Alps, manages to balance the highs and lows perfectly so that it has claims to being the best constructed symphony written in the second half of the 19th century. Still, it’s so pleasant you hardly notice the craft behind its constant flow of melody.

No. 17. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5
The ambiguities of the 20th century mark this symphony as a great conundrum. Is it an ironic send up of triumphalist rhetoric or is it a sensational paean of hope? Answer: it could be both.

No. 16. Beethoven: Symphony No. 7
This symphony, called by Wagner “the apotheosis of the dance,” constitutes a vast feedback loop between the physical sensations the music evokes in the listener’s body and the emotions that course as a consequence through the mind.

No. 15. Mozart: Symphony No. 40
Edgy and at least once positively atonal, this minor key symphony reveals its composer as at once the most human and the greatest dramaturge of the classical period.

No. 14. Sibelius: Symphony No. 7
The composer of this brief symphony wrote it with a bottle of whiskey always within reach. He knew, if the world did not, that it would be his last symphony. No composer has ever left a better testament.

No. 13. Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
A vast work with Sierra-like gleaming snow-capped peaks and soft, forested valleys, this symphony pays homage to both Bach and Beethoven over the course of its high peak hike.

No. 12. Brahms: Symphony No. 3
No question about it, this symphony contains all kinds of personal messages. Over its four movements it tells the tale of an unconsummated love affair that begins with a musical clue to its content: just 4 notes: F, A, A-flat, F. Those notes stand for “Frei aber Froh,” German for “Free but Happy”.

No. 11. Beethoven Symphony No. 5
Perhaps the most famous, if not the greatest, symphony of all time. It is the first symphony that takes aim with its first notes at its very last notes, pushing the listener ever forward, sometimes relentlessly and sometimes gently on to the mighty C major ending.

No. 10. Mahler: Symphony No. 3
A gigantic symphony that began with a simple question that led to a very long answer. “What do the rocks tell me?” That’s the same question that geographer, explorer Alexander Humboldt asked a few generations before the composer got around to it. Both geographer and composer came up with profound if very different answers.

No. 9. Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Pathetique
This is a symphony that has always been associated with tragedy because the composer’s death soon followed the premier. Some have even interpreted this symphony as the world’s longest suicide note.

No. 8. Brahms: Symphony No. 1
“You don’t know what it’s like for the likes of us when we hear footsteps behind us.” Those were the words of the composer of this symphony when he was asked why it took him so long to write it. And exactly whose footsteps was he hearing?

No. 7. Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
This is the symphony that forever linked the autobiography of the composer to the music he might write. Like his life, his symphony is a mixture of reverie and wildness.

No. 6. Brahms: Symphony No. 4
This symphony is a last symphony that is a true summing up musically. It is a work by a man obsessed with music’s past and its great creators… Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Yet it maps out a future for the symphony as well.

No. 5. Mahler: Symphony No. 2, Resurrection
Hearing this long symphony, the critics called it a “monster” and its composer “impious”. But audiences were transported by it; they hardly noticed its touches of Nietzsche and Freud.

No. 4. Mahler: Symphony No. 9
This is another “last” symphony even though the composer didn’t know it. It is also the largest “last” symphony of them all with a percussion section that includes timpani, bass drum, triangle, cymbals, tam-tam, glockenspiel and three deep bells.

No. 3. Mozart: Symphony No. 41, Jupiter
Yet another “last” symphony in which the composer seems to revel in creating conflicts that only he can unravel. It’s a symphony written deeper than most, a demonstration that harmony not melody is at the heart of what stirs us in music.

No. 2. Beethoven: Symphony No. 9, Choral
What do you do when music alone won’t do what you want it to? You write this symphony, but only one deaf composer could do it.

No. 1. Beethoven: Symphony No. 3, Eroica
This symphony changed everything about music. Before it, music served as hand maiden to other purposes and activities. Symphonies were stimulating diversions, pleasing and, often, moving entertainments. This symphony, however had the power to change the people who heard it, to grab them, lift them, completely engage them and finally without reference to class or religion inspire them.

Que por cierto, en 1º lugar salió la 3º de Beethoven, por encima de la 9...

Esa lista está totalmente sesgada. A ver, entendámonos, es una lista votada por directores de orquestas que se dedican a estos repertorios.
No me extraña que la 9ª no salga la primera dado que exige un gran coro y no se programa tan frecuentemente.
Para mi esto ya se ha convertido como en un bucle de pesadilla. Siempre las mismas obras de los mismos compositores.
Yo ya he eliminado de mi discografía, y en ello estoy, parte del clasicismo incluyendo Haydn, Mozart y Beethoven.
Los he escuchado hasta la saciedad y ya no me interesa tanto como descubrir otras cosas.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/ ... st-century

Pues esa lista de The Guardián me parece superinteresante, aunque solo sea porque no me suena ni una obra de la lista.
Solo espero que no sea toda de música atonal, mi oído, ni mi cerebro, no están aún preparados para una sobredosis de sonidos “inconexos”

[draku]

¡cómo odio los bulos musicales! si ya nos la coló Giazotto en 1945 con su falso Adagio de Albinoni, ahora casI me dejo engañar por un tal Vavilov, que era un tipejo al que se le caía la "vava" haciendo bulos musicales. Afortunadamente quise indagar en la pieza, al ver que en youtube había un millón de videos de ese Ave María

En 1970 Vavilov edito un LP titulado “Música de laúd de los siglos XVI-XVII”, pero a pesar del nombre del disco, fue él mismo compuso casi todas las piezas grabadas. Atribuyó todas las piezas a compositores barrocos o renacentistas, incluso sin que cuadrasen con el estilo que tenían estos. Curiosamente en este LP, Vladimir Vavilov editó y registró el «Ave María» como una pieza anónima, y nadie sabe por qué, después de la muerte de Vavilov, Mark Shakhin (el organista que participó en la grabación del LP) atribuyó la obra a Giulio Caccini. A pesar de todo, el engaño continúa sobreviviendo y son abundantes los equívocos y las versiones (a cual más esperpéntica y alejada de la forma de componer de Caccini) que se continúan haciendo.

(insisto: NO ES DE CACCINI)

A ver Vavilov, muy bonita, pero el auténtico Caccini (1550 — 1618) sí que hacía música bonita de verdad

[draku]

Lanzó esta cuestión al aire, ya que, aunque lo he leído en alguna ocasión, no soy capaz de encontrar info... Me refiero a ese efecto que se da en ocasiones, oyendo su música, que de pronto nos parece oír motivos aflamencados, aunque sólo sea por un instante o unos segundos...

¿explicación?, ¿casualidades de la música?, Que yo sepa, Ludwig tuvo cero relación con España... ¿o no?

[draku]

Es una duda que tengo... Domingo, Carreras, Kraus, Caballé, Berganza... sé que en España son nombres conocidos por todos, y que además cada uno de ellos tuvo una gran carrera operística internacional con los más grandes directores y orquestas, pero... ¿son igual de conocidos fuera de España?, ¿si hablas de ellos por ahí la gente los conoce?...

Incluso no sé si "Los 3 tenores" que fue todo un boom de ventas en España, tuvo tanto éxito internacional...

[vicrogo]

Los tres tenores fueron un gran boom internacional, no solo en España. En orden de popularidad, Pavarotti era el más conocido, incluso por el gran público, Domingo lo era entre los melómanos, y Carreras mucho menos, pero ese concierto los elevó por encima del resto en cuanto a visibilidad populachera, por así decir. Entre los especialistas de aquel momento, había división entre cuál era el mejor tenor, algunos decían que Pavarotti, otros que Domingo, es algo que según y dónde estaba clarísimo, de todos modos no cantaban exactamente el mismo repertorio, por ejemplo Wagner era de Domingo y Pavarotti no se comía un colín. Kraus por supuesto era buenísimo, y muy reconocido internacionalmente, aunque por supuesto más en España. La Caballé también tenía buen nombre... pero bueno, mejor consultar fuera. En estos rankings de "los 20 mejores del siglo XX", entre los tenores no aparece Carreras, Kraus hace el número 18, y Plácido Domingo el 1 (el 2 es Caruso y el 3 Pavarotti).
https://www.classical-music.com/feature ... -all-time/

En cuanto a las sopranos, Montserrat Caballé figura en el número 6, Victoria de los Ángeles en el 3 (la 1 es la Callas, la 2 Joan Sutherland)
https://www.classical-music.com/feature ... -all-time/

Teresa Berganza, al ser mezzosoprano, queda fuera de esta "champion ligue", pero también es muy reconocida fuera de España.

[Xinver]

Por supuesto.
Klaus cantó con la Callas.
Los rankings esos no se en que se basan peros todos estos son reconocidisimos mundialmente y universalmente de una etapa de la ópera que ya ha pasado.

[Eulemind]

Honestamente de los que nombraron solo "conozco" a Domingo y Pavarotti, aunque este último es Italiano(?
Le aproveche de prguntar a unos familiares y amigos, la mayoría me contesto que no le sonaba ninguno y unos dos conocían a los mismos que yo

[Xinver]

Honestamente de los que nombraron solo "conozco" a Domingo y Pavarotti, aunque este último es Italiano(?
Le aproveche de prguntar a unos familiares y amigos, la mayoría me contesto que no le sonaba ninguno y unos dos conocían a los mismos que yo

bueno eso es como todo, si no estás metido en el mundo de la ópera porque no te atrae lógico que no conozcas a mucha de esta gente, no sé si será el caso

es como si a mi me preguntan por cantantes
de heavy metal, pues ni idea.

[vicrogo]

Honestamente de los que nombraron solo "conozco" a Domingo y Pavarotti, aunque este último es Italiano(?
Le aproveche de prguntar a unos familiares y amigos, la mayoría me contesto que no le sonaba ninguno y unos dos conocían a los mismos que yo

Tiene razón Xinver al decir que hablamos de un mundo que ya no existe, pero me causa mucho impacto que alguien no sepa quién fue María Callas, o Caruso, o Joan Sutherland... pensaba que eran personajes más populares, de dominio público, casi de la prensa rosa, qué sé yo... como Lady Di, por ejemplo; pero es evidente que me equivoco.

De todos modos me pasó algo parecido cuando en uno de estos concursos de "nuevos talentos musicales" (no recuerdo el nombre), había un joven aspirante a cantante, veinteañero, y hablando con el jurado salió el nombre de Lola Flores, ¡y no le sonaba de nada! Al final la situó con esfuerzo, a partir de Lolita y Rosario, de las que sí tenía una vaga idea.